Hubris from a Nameless Cynic

Wednesday, July 15, 2009

Two days ago, I wrote a post entitled “While the Left was busy making fun of Michelle Bachman.” In the piece I made the point that Michelle Bachman is not crazy for having concerns about a one-world currency being pushed by other foreign governments. My supporting argument was that there has been talk at the last G20 and current G8 meetings about adopting a supranational currency. My conclusion was simple; you cannot be labeled crazy for believing that there are governments talking about one-world currency when there are governments talking about one-world currency. A good discussion formed with some of the esteemed and high-minded, left-leaning bloggers who follow my posts and I have a great deal of respect for. Now enter Nameless Cynic.

Nameless Cynic said:

“ConGen: Well, I suppose you could determine that "several other countries seriously calling for and trying to establish a world currency." If, that is, you had absolutely no idea what "reserve currency" means.

I mean, let's go to that same Bloomberg article you linked to.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev has repeatedly called for creating a mix of regional reserve currencies as part of the drive to address the global financial crisis, while questioning the dollar’s future as a global reserve currency.

See, what that means is, he isn't calling for making a Unified World Currency: he "called for creating a mix of regional reserve currencies." He's diversifying his portfolio instead of investing everything in USA Corp.

A "reserve currency" isn't the money you spend, it's the currency held by a central bank on a permanent basis as a store of international liquidity. They don't want to hold dollars because dollars aren't worth as much now.

So calm down. We aren't facing the One World Government you've been storing canned goods and ammo in order to fight against.”


Here Cynic is denying the idea that anyone is looking to create a supranational currency. From the article I referenced, Cynic argues that Russia merely wants to mix up their currency reserves by divesting in the dollar and diversify with other currencies as well.

I replied:

NC - LOL!!!!!!

Do you start and end all of your arguments with condescension and accusations? The offer to reply in-kind is tempting, but pointless.

The part of the quote you left out was:

“Russia’s proposals for the Group of 20 major developed and developing nations summit in London in April included the creation of a supranational currency.”

It’s fairly easy to remove the line of the quote talking about one-world currency and then say, “hey, ignoramus, they’re not talking about one-world currency.”

While I have a very good understanding of reserve currency and have taught college classes about it, you seem to be a little clueless of the term “supranational currency.” It is not the same as reserve currency.

Go look it up! If you are going to drop insults, know what you are talking about.


Some definitions for you:

A reserve currency is when a country’s central bank holds other nation’s currency/currencies and/or commodities such as precious metals to ensure liquidity and stabilize their home currency value.

A supranational currency occurs when a group of countries establish a central banking entity, via treaty, to establish some form of uniform currency. A supranational currency is not necessarily limited to being used as reserve currency. The Euro is a supranational currency that is used as currency throughout the EU.

Russia is proposing a supranational currency to be adopted by all nations that will be used to resolve trade balances. Meaning, it will replace the dollar as the currency of trade and the standard for reserve currencies. So to clarify for the Cynic, yes, reserve currency is not used by average people in day-to-day transactions. Yes, Russia is not simply looking to diversify their country’s reserve currency, but replace the dollar as the currency used by the world. Yes, it requires a global form of government or organization to run and regulate it. Yes, whether you think it is plausible or not, it’s a bad idea for the US to consider adopting any form of supranational currency. The economic consequences would be traumatic for our country. Runaway inflation comes to mind.

I’d love to go into detail about how Russia’s supranational currency will work, but at the moment they have only made proposals and have no clear outline. Could the supranational currency be more than just currency reserves? Who knows? A few years ago an international panel of astronomers met to discuss the possibility of including three other celestial bodies to the nine planets of our solar system. By the time they were done we did not have twelve planets in our solar system, but eight. Additionally, there is already a supranational currency called the Euro and it’s used for more than currency reserve.

The Law, a common reader and left-minded blogger, pointed out that it is not likely to come to fruition and I am inclined to agree. However, it’s not crazy to think it’s possible.

Cynic’s reply?

Oh, yes. Look, here we are, all concerned. Dmitry Medvedev has recommended that we create "a supranational reserve currency"!! Oh, god! It's a...

...it's a reserve currency not tied to the dollar. Like I said.


...additional comments redacted and posted below…

My reply?

Cynic. It is not like you said. Reserve currency and supranational currency are not the same by definition. You were discussing Russia adjusting their reserve currency for their own central bank. In reality, they are pushing as many countries as possible to adopt a supranational currency to hold in reserve. They are not analogous, not even in outcome. There is a big difference between Russia adopting a mix of reserve currencies for their central bank and the world adopting a single currency based on a basket of currencies. The biggest difference is the effect on the US dollar and the US economy.

The rest of Cynics reply from above…?

Jesus, you're a schmuck. (Oh, sorry. I probably shouldn't use Hebrew insults. You'll assume I'm part of the Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy...)

You've taught college classes about it? Then why don't you seem to know anything on the subject?


…Baseless insults. Cynic…when you make comments like this it does not make you look witty or intelligent. It makes you look like an ass. From now on I’ll return your comments from whence they came; the garbage.

Additional articles on the subject:

http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLG42629320090616

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20090710/155494340.html

13 comments

The Law said...

I happen to know C Gen is very very skilled in the subject of economics. While we may not agree on the results of the policies made at home or abroad, his arguments are grounded in solid economic theory and practices, and we should refrain from name calling. Otherwise, we're not much better than the politicians in Washington.

I understand Michelle Bachman's concern, but she is very much the girl who cried wolf. She fanatically rants and raves about so much irrelevant crap (we should find out "how American" everyone is) that she loses audience with everyone but the extreme right at the first pass.

As things are starting to shake out, I'm beginning to think we need a whole new economic system. "Bottom-up" economics hurts everyone above the upper middle class. Supply side economics hurts everyone under the upper middle class. Obama's plan helps more people, but it also helps the less productive people in our population. (with respect to the contribution to our GDP). Supply-side econ crushes most Americans economically, but admittly seems to create a stronger economy, which makes other countries more willing to do business with us.

So the real question is how do we reconcile not crushing Americans with once again becoming a money making machine? That is what we have to figure out, because the fact of the matter is deficit financing America is not a good idea when there is no sound model in place to make money (esp. considering the increasing unemployment rate). International bodies, espeically ones posing to overtake America for the #1 economy, and ones who stand to benefit from America not being the #1 body are taking a long view of the American economy from both a financial and social perspective. They see our standard of living beginning to slip. And because most countries already do not like us, all we need is to give them a reason to not back the dollar anymore and thats that.

Because this would still take a bit of time to come into fruition, there is still time to correct course. It starts with a better atmosphere in Washington. It ends with more cooperation between the left and the right. It helps when we draft bills together, rather than have a democrat drafted bill with republicans amendments. It also helps if they coudl stop the finger pointing in Washington. The world takes note of such things...

July 15, 2009 at 3:18 PM
Andrew33 said...

So today I laid out the plan of those who support globalism as stated by the original globalist. NC has no argument against the globalists themselves. It will take the far left and the far right realizing that this road were racing down ends in a cliff dive to our deaths. Even if we did not "defecit finance" a dollar is nothing but a statement of national debt. So, when you give someone a dollar, you just gave them debt and neither you nor they realize it. Soon America will realize that and our financial collapse will be the greatest and the fastest in history. Those who control such things threatened to to exactly that before the election which is why McCain took off to Washington in the middle of his campaign. The "financial disaster" that was averted was the intentional destruction of our entire financial system by members of the "Federal Reserve bank".

July 15, 2009 at 3:31 PM

CGen - Nameless Cynic has an interesting fascination bordering on the delusional and obsessive in regards to Bachmann. The only time I have had discourse with him was during my "Is the Liberal Left Actually Open Minded" piece. He called her a moobat, a moron, etc. Great post

July 15, 2009 at 3:56 PM

New Gen. If you can wade through it, read my latest post. We are channeling some of the same thoughts...

NC is probably a nice guy, and I am not saying I would drink beer with the man, but he obviously is drinking the Blue Kool-Aid.

July 15, 2009 at 6:04 PM

@ tL - Thanks for sticking up for me! Honestly, I don't know a ton about Bachman, so I can't speak to anything other than what I posted. I need to do more research on her. I've been tracking the currency issue because I believe that our economy is sensitive to inflation right now and I like to be ahead of the curve on my economic predictions. While researching I found a load of left blogs claiming Bachman crazy for her concern regarding currency hence my post. Honestly, given our current economic situation, there are a lot of libertarian currency and economic policies that are making a lot of sense at the moment.

I agree with you. We've had good debates and we've found good middle ground. I'd like to work on a post with you regarding policy for those in the low socioeconomic status. I'll give you more details if you are interested.

@ Andrew - I've got to be honest with you, I'm just not ready to go there with you. There's a lot of smoke and mirrors and we need to have investigations before coming to conclusions. I think auditing the Fed would be a great start.

@ LCR - Thanks! I must admit, my title was partly a shameless marketing technique to draw people to read. When I post on these "contraversial" figures I get tons of traffic. Same think happened when I posted on Sarah Palin.

@ KOOK - Actually, I might drink a beer with him so long as he was paying.

I have no problem debating, but all the baseless accusations are insulting. I blog for fun, not for money. I'm not a politician so I'm not beholded to anyone. I wouldn't allow anyone to talk to me like that in person and I'm certainly not going to put up with it here.

July 15, 2009 at 7:48 PM
blackandgoldfan said...

What a gentleman, C-Gen! You showed much more restraint than I could.

It's sad that their default position is name-calling and insults. I guess when they're backed into an intellectual corner, they don't know what else to do.

Great post!

July 15, 2009 at 7:49 PM

@ blackandgoldfan - I appreciate it! I suggest you read the book "The Games People Play" by Eric Berne. It's a psychology book about how people interact in social settings.

The author has a chapter about how people interact in three types of voices; parent, child, and adult. NC's condescending remarks is basically an attempt to set up social discussion where he pretends he's the parent and I'm the child. When someone set up this situation by challenging another person via superiority and condescension, we are trained from childhood to want to take up the child's position and defend ourselves. Berne argues correctly that the best way to handle the situation is to avoid the temptation to play the role of the child and respond to the person as an adult. You will get one of two reactions. Taking a reasonable adult tone will cause the other person to follow suit or the other person will have a meltdown because you aren't playing their game. I believe the later happened here.

July 15, 2009 at 8:07 PM
blackandgoldfan said...

Or he held his breath until he turned blue, C-Gen!

July 15, 2009 at 8:11 PM
Andrew33 said...

C-Gen, I didn't expect that many people would be ready to go there, but, as I showed with "fact check," there is at least enough evidence for this to warrant discussion. KOOK's latest post is oddly similar to info that was forthcoming in later posts from me. If you tell me where and what you disagree with I will explain further as I did with TAO. Note that the "Federal Reserve Bank" has never been audited and when such things are suggested, the idea gets taken off the table very quickly. I didn't just decide to do this on a whim and am sending the related material to KOOK now and will be passed around from there. It is okay to disagree with me on this. I knew it was controversial when I decided to do it. I will not treat you like those unnamed because you disagree with me and I will still collaborate with you anytime you are doing climate material and want my input. Cool?

July 15, 2009 at 9:33 PM
The Law said...

@ CGen - I'd love to work with ya on a post! You know how to get in touch with me... I def look forward to it =)

July 16, 2009 at 12:11 AM
Andrew33 said...

I've noticed that NC tends to play like he/she/it is a nice intelligent well spoken person, then once actually intellectually challenged these is a tendency for name calling, then a tendency to pretend like he's innocent and had no idea anything like that had started. I went down that road and now NC is just a non-commenter.

July 16, 2009 at 10:12 AM
Nameless Cynic said...

Sorry it took me a week to comment, but...

(Should I say something about it being rude to talk behind people's backs? Nah, they'll just think I'm being touchy or something...)

Now, actually, the question of a supranational currency vs a supranational reserve currency is still unsettled. Part of the problem is probably a translation issue: Bloomberg seems to feel they're talking about a reserve currency, and it's possible that Medvedev sees it evolving from a reserve currency into a future-euro. But this isn't the One World Government you seem to so fear.

However, let's move to more important issues.

Do I seem condescending? Possibly. To be honest, I don't have much patience for conspiracy theorists, which is how you seemed to be coming off.

(Sorry, LCR. I don't have any kind of fascination about Michele Bachmann. It's just that every time she's in the news, she's coming off crazier and crazier; I don't have it memorized, I just know how to look this stuff up.)

I will give in this much: you are quite correct. I threw in some baseless insults and probably shouldn't have. In my own defense, though, I've gone to a number of right-wing websites, and the reception is usually hostile.

Let's look at my first encounter with your little group. Now, we had a lot of sweeping generalizations about the left (usually not just way off the mark, but specific items that I've seen evidence of the polar opposite - and some just generally vitriolic, like "Liberals... are the most racist, evil, closed minded people on the planet"), but the comments about me personally include:

You yourself: "Might as well leave him up, because his comments and his blog prove your point: no rational line of thinking... He is the perfect example of everything that is wrong in this country."

madmath1: "Nameless shows the closed mindedness liberals have... isn't only closed minded, he's deaf, dumb, blind and paralyzed."

Andrew33 actually comes off very well in that exchange, to be honest, but we've had our differences. (And looking at his last response here, I'm not clear what a "non-commenter" is, since he did say I'm still welcome to respond.)

So what are we left with? Am I frequently combative? Yes. Do I occasionally come off looking like an ass? Well, if my wife is to be believed, yes.

But am I merely reflecting a general tendency on the blogs in this ring? You figure it out.

Let he who is without sin...

July 20, 2009 at 9:50 PM

Conspiracy theorist, maybe...
Making this stuff up...NO
which is at least better than buying into policies that have never worked in the history of the world.

I actually feel bad tormenting the few liberals who have the guts to comment on one of our blogs. We should not do that (I say as we currently have a flame fest ongoing towards Diogenes)

July 23, 2009 at 11:49 PM

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